Why we don't use deck clips anymore

  Sometimes a better idea isn't; Ford's Pinto, Chev's Vega, AMC's Pacer, Honda's Del Sol...  In this spirit of failure, wouldn't it be good to fasten decking from the side or from beneath, so that all the fasteners are hidden?

  Alas, another tragic error. 10 years later it seems to cause rot. It works fine in the middle of the boards, however, at the ends the excessive fastening have caused the boards to rot, and the deck to be condemned prematurely.

Speaking as someone that has had a piece of decking snap under me, and had my leg slide into a space 5.5" in width, the feeling of your skin being peeled off is not just alarming--its downright disconcerting. This is a nasty thing to go through and not recommended for entertainment.  (I doubt the guys from JackAss would even try it).

As you know, decking soaks up moisture from the ends of the boards, and when you put 5 fasteners through the end of the board and one is a pointed part of a clip, which cracks the board width wise, it amounts to pulverization. Cracks draw moisture in, and as this select pressure treated decking in this case dries out, the cracks grew larger. Untreated grains are exposed and rot is accelerated.

People suggest securing from beneath using strip type products that screw to the joists and the underside of the decking, which works fine--until you refinish. Then when the painters sand the old finish off, they sand the tips of the screws off causing black stains in the pattern of the screws on the top surface most notable on red cedar decking. Hidden fasteners of any kind are often a bad idea. I expect that the tops of the joists will deteriorate due to screws being driven in along the same grain. Cracks are likely.

Keep in mind, when you hide the fasteners where stain doesn't get into the wound, and where the sun doesn't reach to dry the wood, moisture will fester, and rot will occur. 

Solutions?

Pre-finish the decking so that it doesn't expand and contract. Seal the end grains as you build and use a waterproof epoxy to heal the wounds. Touch up...voila, no fasteners, no premature rot. We do this all the time. Since the decking is stable, not absorbing moisture with every rain, and shrinking as it dries, you can use nails for this method.

Alternatively, if you are in love with screws, (as I am not), you can countersink the screws prior to installing, then use a tapered plug cutter and plug all the holes after installation using waterproof epoxy.  Again, no premature rot.

*  If you reside in Canada, import high VOC finish from the USA. Canadian stain manufacturers have been prohibited from producing high VOC finishes and we have not found a coating that offers durability produced in Canada. ONLY high VOC finishes will be durable long term. Speak to your local paint store to learn more.

Stairs with No Screws?

Here's a new twist on stairs...  No fasteners. Well, not very many anyways.

 

When I was looking at this deck in Muskoka, I nearly missed this. Normally I am pretty quick on the critiques, but it was one of the last things I noticed. The deck did look fairly good, and it was a new build. Ford had it's better idea... (the Pinto).

Chev had it's better idea... (the Vega)

And this carpenter's better idea, gluing stairs together with flooring adhesive... YIKES!

 There are a few finishing nails to hold the outer stringers on until the glue sets... but the only screws, (which shouldn't be used for stairs anyhow), were toenailed into the stringers 1 per plank.

 

Please don't try this at home people... VERY DANGEROUS to mess with stairs when you don't have a clue what you are doing. I know, not a fair statement. This guy knew enough to build a beautiful deck, and the only flaw other than the stairs that I could find were a few odd spaced joists and some joist hangers that are too small. He won't know that the glued stringers idea didn't work...because he ran off with the client's money. That's why I was there--they had me price finishing the rails. I designed a nice system for the rails that matched the log home rather nicely if I don't say so myself!

So, to sum up, as wood expands and contracts glue will separate on exterior work. Wood shrinks in all directions. Unless the grains are aligned and you use marine epoxy... glue will release. These stairs will come tumbling down, maybe not this year... but likely within 3. 

When stairs collapse it nearly always ends in injury...and they nearly always collapse when someone of size is using them, which makes the injury worse.

L

Deck Inspection--Scary Stairs

 

Think Twice before walking up this Staircase!

Would you try it? What if I told you that these stairs were supported by 3-2 1/2" Nails? That the stairs were basically held up by the hand rails? 

This was for a client that lives in China and bought this place as a summer home in Canada. 

 When we removed these stairs we found 3 small nails carrying the deck, through the weakest point of the stringers. (the part that will snap off the straight grain under a load). We normally build out a base from the beam so that the stringers are capped and securely fastened to the deck structure. The cap needs to extend past the lowest extent of the stringer to be safe. 

And at the bottom of the staircase we find the same thing as the top. Supported by the tip of the stringer that is prone to break off. To make things worse it is supported by a platform without footings on sand--on top of the septic field. You are not allowed to build anything within 5' of the septic field. We ended up moving the staircase to the other end of the deck to maintain distance from the septic system.

 I don't know who the manufacturer of this frail rail system is, however I would expect it to be the lowest priced item available in a big box store. The rail is sagging under the weight of the glass and the posts are weak enough to give way if anyone fell towards it. No engineer would stamp this rail as suitable and I have no idea how it passed inspection in the first place. We changed the rail to a more robust system.

 Here's a common issue not addressed by building code. 

Code stipulates that second level decks need to be connected to the house with carriage bolts through the framing of the home... they stipulate every 24" but they don't say where to mount the bolts. All the bolts are mounted 1.5" down from the top of the beam...which means the entire structure is supported by a 2x2 piece of pressure treated lumber. We added bolts and had to remove drywall and patch inside the already finished basement.

The ledger adds another layer of safety--however the ledger was attached to the part of the rim which if tested, would fail. There were also no joist hangers... so we had to add those.

My other concern was that there was no flashing to prevent moisture from getting behind the siding to rot out the connected structure. We added flashings during the re-build.

We discovered a few other issues like non-acq rated nails here and there but we were able to salvage much of the structure. Stay tuned--the next post shows how it turned out!    L

Decks- To Space? Or Not to Space Decking?

Contentious issue this spacing--Should we space Decking?

I hear it all the time--"I've always pushed the decking up against the last row... it looks great". I have only one thing to say ... BS.

If any decking is installed tight it will hold water like a barrel and you will NEVER keep stain on it.

In order for air to flow through the underside of the deck, the skirting needs to be spaced. There are two things that scream "ROOKIE DECK BUILDER"... Routered hand rails and tight decking. Hey, we all started somewhere, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should. More is sometimes too much.

Do you know what happens when you park a car on the grass? In about 2 years the floor will be hanging on the brake lines. This is because grass retains and releases moisture every day. This is why we put down a vapor barrier and gravel below our decks. (Even though the city of Toronto is demanding that we don't).

Using filter cloth is the second best solution, however my preference is to slope the ground and use a vapor barrier to slope the water away from beneath the deck . The other issue has to do with water infiltrating into the basement of the home... you have less chance of a leak with properly installed drainage.

Here is a deck that a builder with 20 years experience built--During the very wet last couple of years, mold covered this deck... not just a little green, more of a squid like multi-colored mold. The house faces east and is in the shade most of the day, so this seems to be the worst mold issue I have ever seen. Tight red cedar decking. Believe it or not, even after showing this builder what happened, he didn't believe it and he refused to fix it.

Ed Morkin of MorDecks, AKA Morkin Outdoor Structures offered a 5 year written workmanship warranty, then reneged. Keep in mind that if you have decks built by Ed Morkin, he simply refuses to space decking and you will end up with the same issues as this unfortunate client.

All the more reason to go and see some of your builder's previous decks when you shop for a deck builder.

L

Very Poor Deck Details

Poor Deck Detailing can take many forms.


On first view of this deck it doesn't look so bad. They cared enough to make the support columns blend with the home--and from a distance it looks like a handsome deck. As you get closer you begin to see what a train wreck of a deck this structure really is.

Handrails that protrude into brick causing the columns to crumble is small potatoes when you realize that 5/4 decking was run on 30 degree angle and sags between the overspanned 2x8 joists spanning 14'. The entire platform springs beneath your feet.

These ballusters have been illegal for second level decks for about 15 years now because they are simply too weak to keep a falling human on a deck. Placing the shoe directly on the decking just breeds rot.

What on earth were they thinking with these footings. I don't know how large the base of these footings are but I would have put 14 or 16" sonos in a 20" hole beneath these footings on the soil in this area. The deck seems to have sunk a little, however without putting a level on it I couldn't comment on movement.

I don't expect it has been inspected by the building department--if it had they sure didn't get very close during the inspection.

L

Spacing Decking - Why it is necessary.

Spacing Decking- To Space ... Or not To Space

Here is the number 1 reason we space our decking.

This project has magnified the issue for us. As you can see this builder pushed the decking tight.

Last year was the wettest year in many decades in the area it was built. The deck faces east in townhomes and has homes to the southwest on the other side so the placement is sort of cave like.

This yard gets very little sun at the best of times so mold runs rampant.
For these reasons mold has formed all over the surface of this deck.

As you can see the mold is running up the wall (though it is winter killed here it was a pretty colour of green). When decking does not dry out it can actually absorb moisture and become wetter and tighter than when it was installed.

When decking is wet you cannot apply a coating and have it stick. If anyone attempted to stain this deck the finish would be peeling within months. If the pores are full of moisture--they cannot accept the finish into them.

I hear all the arguments--the wood is wet, it will shrink and then the spaces will be too big! Nothing looks more professinal than a uniformly spaced deck. Seeing a deck with no spaces tells me that the deck builder is an amateur.

This is a nearly 400 square foot deck with tight decking and tight skirting with no space below (floating grade beam footings). If the decking was spaced and the skirting were spaced this deck would not have had mold issues.

So if mold growing up the customer's snow shovel and furniture is your idea of a quality build--Enjoy your tight decking and prosperous future .

L

Fence Inspections (Part 1)

"This post illustrates major errors in fence building that many contractors and DIY builders make when erecting fences."

Hiring a contractor to build a wood fence anywhere in North America between April and June is fraught with financial risk.

Every single year in an area like Toronto, or LA, or Houston there are 500 new fence companies. Some work out of small cars or station wagons, some have big professional looking trucks. Nice business cards, sometimes company shirts and baseball caps, an eager and optimistic attitude, lots of energy---and most importantly, little or no experience, business training, marketing know how or even the slightest clue how to build a wood fence. They are all eager to do a few jobs and build a reputation.

Where do you learn to build great fences? There are very few books that teach anything worthwhile when it comes to fences. We sell plans on our website that contains plenty of good instructions, however most of the books in stores and in the library are either old, flawed or geared to the southern climates.

Every year I get calls this time of year, “Can I get you to come out and tell me if this fence is built properly”—I ask them if this was a low bid contractor—they typically tell me of course it was. I give them a price and I go out to have a look. "This is often the case--people assume that all fences are equal and that all fence builders know how to build well".

It is always interesting when I arrive with the contractor still on site and begin taking photos of their sins against the fence gods.

Inspections and the following report is firstly a negotiation tool for the client to decrease the contractor due to his shoddy workmanship. Secondly this is due diligence for a future court case. You see when I prepare a report it contains photos and plain English language explanations of the errors being showcased. It is what a judge needs in order to make a reasonable assessment if it does come to court.

Take Snoop Dog Square Pants here—(yes, that is a "Sponge Bob", Tee shirt on this young contractor), the poor guy couldn't’t build a fence straight or level, cheated on the footings, used ardox nails in ACQ materials, built gates backwards-even put the hardware on backwards.

When confronted by the client by asking how long the posts that he installed were—( because they were sticking out of the ground 8’)—this rookie builder told him 11’. Everyone knows you can’t buy 11’ posts. It added insult to injury in this case.

These guys didn't know how to remove the old corner posts--so they just added a piece to the existing fence beyond.

A fence with no corner posts will not last.

You can also see the fence boards touching the ground. Frost causes the ground to expand. It will lift up to 2" in this area. Without 2" of space between the ground and the fence... it will lift the posts out of the ground or damage the fence.

Both of these gates were built by the same contractor. Strange how the frames are different sizes. Gate braces work under compression, so one of these gates is backwards.

They missed with their gun exposing a tragic flaw. Non-ACQ Rated nails in ACQ materials.

Within 3 years there will not likely be a board left on this fence. Black streaks of corrosion will be the only evidence of nails ever existing.

Worse still--he used nails the wrong size--then clipped them off. Straight shank nails tend to pull straight out or work themselves loose due to expansion and contraction of the wood.

Always use spiral galvanized ACQ rated nails in ACQ Materials. If this rookie deck builder had bothered to use actual ACQ rated fasteners and clipped them off--they would rot in 3 years just like ardox.

When it comes to sturdying up fence posts there really is only one way. Replace the post with one that is installed in a proper footing.

Adding concrete will only make the post lift a little higher out of the ground every year.

I don't have anything against someone starting a new fence company--however--learn your craft before competing with real fence companies.

In this case I explained to this make believe fence builder that he should be ashamed of himself for wasting all these materials and then expecting the client to pay for it even though it would only last 3 years.

If he wasn't going to bother learning how to build fences properly, that he should go and do something that doesn't require any learning--like digging ditches, or sweeping floors.

The kindest thing I could do for this contractor is to give him a nudge to help him get out of business and help him towards doing something productive with his life.

I told the homeowner that he should offer the builder $500 to take the whole fence away... then he should have a proper fence built by a legitimate contractor. This fence will be an eyesore within months.

By The Way-- If you want to learn how to build a fence properly click the link. The step by step plans are fool proof.

L

Collapsed Decks

Sometimes decks collapse because of creativity.

This looks to most people like a good idea--few things are as strong as Polycarbonate.

Polycarbonate is a very strong plastic. The trouble is that every product will eventually meet their maximum level of usability. Most plastics do react with UV exposure and get brittle.

In this case they were overloaded to the point of failure. I found 3 broken clips...not sure how many there were.

These brackets were designed to hold the snow on steel or aluminum roofs rather than folks slamming the door and it landing on their heads.

Trouble is that they work very well. It keeps the snow on the roof... long enough to turn it to ice during protracted cold spells.

The ice builds up over the months and eventually the weight is too great--for the plastic snojacks in this case. If they were made of metal--it is not likely that they all would have failed simultaneously as in this case.

This was a deck that was sturdy enough for the owners to have a party on last weekend--and a week ago 2 or 3 tons of snow and ice slid off the roof and impacted the deck, punching the support posts up through the platform.

When a deck is just under built or a ledger fails the entire platform typically collapses.

Now, lets not rush to hasty judgement that the polycarbonate brackets caused the failure.

4 snowfalls with very little melt, protracted cold weather and a not so well insulated home causing the snow to condense into ice and a metal roof and a not so new deck all had a part in this deck failure.

This was in fact a fortunate accident.

Because this is the main entrance to the house.

No one was home at the time of the collapse.

L

Screws VS Nails for Deck Framing.

While watching one of those TV Hero-Competition Bashing Contractor screwing a deck frame together the other day it illuminated a contentious debate in the Deck Business. Which is stronger… Nails or Screws for decks?

Nails have a much greater sheer strength, while for a short time in a deck application screws may hold tighter. If this surprises you, try this experiment. Put a screw in a nice big block of wood about 1.5” deep…could be firewood, the type doesn’t matter.

Now, hit the screw with a hammer.

It sheers off clean.

Try the same thing with a nail.

You would have to bend the nail back and forth 50 times for it to snap off.

This is why we use Nails for framing.

If it is in the budget to use a joist gasket and stainless screws, we will use them. Or in the case of Pressure Treated, at request of the client, we will use ACQ Screws. However we do let them know that when it comes time to refinish the deck, you may end up changing a number of broken screws even taking these precautions.

When the boards are swelling from moisture it can cause the screws to tear out of the joists leaving a void for moisture to cause premature rot. If the finish was damaged during installation it can corrode. Often the screws will simply not hold beyond a couple of years.

When you refinish a deck typically we set all the nails a quarter inch deep, then sand the deck with a large machine….

If the deck is screwed down, you have to set the screws. This means that roughly half the screws will strip within the joist, or break or the head will strip at the bit. That exposed steel will react with Red Cedar causing black streaks.

Now, In California did you know that it is illegal to assemble your deck with Screws?

Due to earthquakes, screwed frames have collapsed causing injury and damages in several locations. Many things are discovered in California first…

Build Safe gang—Don’t believe what you see on TV when it comes to woodwork.

L

Deck Inspections - Another Failing Grade

More often than you expect we get calls from pensive clients asking strange questions about what they should reasonably expect when it comes to decks and fences.

Yes, your gates should operate without jamming--there should be an inch of clearance, yes, it should have a brace. No, your deck should not have black spots all over it, no, it shouldn't sag between the joists.

I've received enough of these calls in the past that a few times a year I am inspecting the competition's work and preparing a report to arm the client with a definitive list of deficiencies to negotiate with the contractor.


Now, I will preface this by saying, I know what these people paid for this deck, and it was a low-ball or "Cheap" price.

In the above shot you will see the most common design flaw in decks. An 11 inch step outside a door and marks on the wall where the previous deck was. It is dangerous and certainly a tragic flaw since it makes the deck feel uncomfortable as you enter.

Taking a peek at the substructure the skirting touches the ground which means that it will lift the deck off the footings as the frost sets in.


Second issue is the strange footing... two footings to support one post. Since I viewed this I have been trying to imagine a situation where I would do this. I am still trying.



At least they put gravel and a drop sheet down.



The post to footing connection and beam to post connection are a long way from secure.





Now, Hand rails are a pretty important part of any deck.



These guys used "A cedar 2x4, top and bottom" and called it a hand rail. Zoom forward a few years. When you toenail a 2x4 into a 4x4 post and it starts to rot... it eventually falls off.



As well when you lay a 2x4 on the flat and span 42" it will sag in short order. The bottom member of this rail will not support the glass. A hand rail is not a picture frame. It could also be called a safety rail...certainly when it is 8' off the ground.

The trims are simply 3/4" x 3/4" cedar fastened with brad nails.



I wouldn't want to be the one to trip towards this rail and have to rely on it. This deck rail would never pass an inspection by the building department. It would never receive a stamp from an engineer. Any contractor that would knowingly install this hand rail and charge the client for it is simply a negligent greedy pig . If you don't know how to build a hand rail...research and find out. Laziness is no excuse for putting people in danger.


Now, this is my pet peeve of 2007. They changed the formulation for pressure treated materials a couple of years back. ACQ is now the standard and it eats steel fasteners within a couple of years.



ACQ fasteners are "Double Galvanized" to withstand the corrosion caused by ACQ pressure treated materials which this deck frame is made from. "ACQ FASTENERS DO NOT RUST IN THE ELEMENTS". This means that within a couple of years these fasteners will not be holding themselves into the pressure treated frame. The deck will fall to pieces.



Metal reacts with the tannins in Red Cedar to cause black staining throughout the entire thickness of the wood, causing a stain that can NEVER be removed.



These guys cleaned up all the materials from the deck, (which left a perfect outline on the lawn of dead grass), and left the box of what they fastened the decking to the ACQ rated under structure. Ouch...



"Ummm, I used fasteners that will turn to dust in 2 years...but can I have my check now?"



This is one of the largest deck companies in the Toronto Area. They have a website and I know one of their managers personally. I don't want to provoke a law suit so I am not going to name them but what I will tell you is that this deck is just off Avenue Road, south of the 401 and they do a lot of work in the area.


The lowest price is rarely the best deal.



L

Levers and Structural Engineering

Here's a nice demonstration as to how to push two little 8" footings into the ground. Add some more people and some rain--and it should successfully push the whole post into the ground too.






These folks must be part time engineering students!

My theory is that it will take more than that diagonal board to keep this deck on this house. They cantilevered the beam about 3' as well. If they don't put up a fence right away maybe I can get some after shots too.

In general, you can cantilever about 12" on 2x8 joists, and about 16" on 2x10 joists. When you get around the 4' mark on 2x8 joists you are going to see some interesting things happen... like wavy big decks, jiggly little decks. Could be entertaining--but mostly dangerous.

Did you notice the cleat type stairs?

L

Making a House or Deck Fall Down

In my travels I see many things that astound me, that's why I keep my camera close by.




These folks were apparently renovating their own home--since the guys in texas can flip this house I guess these folks thought it was a good idea. When you remove all the sheathing, brick cladding and drywall from the inside the home is very likely to flip --over onto the lawn.

There is no empathy to be found for these half wits here, it is the most basic principal. Without lateral bracing--sheathing, let in bracing or cable bracing (for larger buildings), the structure will fall down. If you don't know what you are doing--stay away from houses.

Driving by on Highway 92 near Elmvale Ontario my eye was drawn by a yellow van and some boys disassembling a big pile of pressure treated lumber. Ouch. I had to stop and chat with the guys and as it turned out the owner was there.

He said it was an aquaintence that built the deck for him--he was cheap and the owner knew his dad once upon a time. On first glance aside from the lack of joist hangers it doesn't look that bad.
It was obviously a low bid--and he simply couldn't afford the time to fasten anything properly. Notice the gas line beneath the deck.

When you look a little closer the ledger is fastened about every 3' with a half inch sleeve anchor--though not a terrible detail, look at the placement of the anchor. It is 1" from the top of the ledger, which means the whole deck is held up by a 2x2.

When you look a little closer you will notice that the joists are simply toenailed in with 3 galvanized spikes.

So, here is the paraphrased account from the owner. His kids were up at the house when they heard a loud crunch. The snow and ice had slid off the metal roof and landed on the deck. A few moments later the deck collapsed. The pipe beneath the deck--gas line for the bbq.

Kids get out of the house and call 911 because of the gas leak.

First Volunteer Fireman to arrive is overcome by gas trying to find the shut off.

Second nearly Succumbs to gas removing the first fireman.

Closest homes are evacuated.

So, this poorly built deck nearly cost a few lives and if there was a spark, the home would have been gone as well. This is the kind of thing that the building department is there to prevent--it didn't work too well this time.

Before the BCIN requirements came into force 90% of decks were built without a permit. Now it is closer to 95%.

Many builders and Government officials seem to be lacking some common sense of late.

L

The Need for Flashings

Whenever you are attaching to a house you need to seal against moisture.

Porches meeting masonry are a particularly important since masonry transmits moisture. This porch was obviously built about 50+ years ago so back then they made the brick ties very large. Normally a 3/4" or 1" bolt.

This kind of thing is the result of a few factors. Often it happens after years of leaking flashings melt the beam to the point that it will no longer support snow load or even itself.

The other half of the equation, the footings may have been slightly too small to do the job, when snow load is factored in when soil gets moist during freeze, or thaw or just a rainy fall or spring the inadequate footings will get pushed into the ground levering the porch from it's connection.

L

More Concrete = Stronger Footings? Not True

More Concrete Does not necessarily mean Stronger Footings.



A post in the ground is only as solid as the ground around it. Concrete holds moisture. Rot needs air and moisture and fuel (sugar) to form. The worst place to have a concrete/wood intersection is at ground level.

Second factor is that when you dig a hole, the top of the hole is normally larger than the base of the hole which causes frost to be able to lift the post (and your fence) out of the ground--dirt washes in beneath the footing and it gets higher every year.

Bell the hole you say? If the bottom of the hole is larger, and the top of the hole is larger, as the frost sets in it will shear the concrete between the two. Don’t underestimate the power of frost.

If you keep the concrete in the bottom half of the hole, frost will set in and anchor the footing in place. Use fine gravel or stone dust to set the post above the concrete footing and it will act as a lubricant and prevent the post from being lifted by frost.

L